The two things are diametrically opposed in meaning of course. If the hosel design and manufacturing processes allow it, the lie of an iron can be bent 3-4 degrees or more with no compromise to the integrity of the head. The fact remains that only stronger, faster swings can support lower lofts. The Ever Changing Bag! Potentially, this would mean the toe digs in and your shots go right (right handed). i dont need that. By setting up with the ball 1" farther back in your stance, and all other things being exactly the same you are delofting the c, Intrigued by your debate, I did a little virtual bending experiment with a Taylormade UDI in Photoshop. I meant decrease loft and make stronger. Military. I am wanting to bend my 5-PW one degree stronger and my 4 irontwo degrees stronger to fit better with my wedges and hybrid golf club. With your height you obviously need to be fit properly. Among full-swing clubs, drivers have the lowest degrees of loft (some pros use drivers with as little as 7 degrees of loft; most recreational golfers use drivers lofted at 9 to 14 degrees). I am now thinking I am just going to bend my 712 Ap2 irons to the 714 AP2 specs so my gaps will match up better with my wedges. Working through the grades, hisdebut, five-shot victory on the KFT,was backed up with a pair of top-10s and two-top-20s, easily enough to nab his PGA Tour card for 2022/23. If the customer cant get the 4 iron in the air, pull that too and give them a hybrid that will get in the air. All rights reserved. Well-regarded at home, he mixed his time in junior golf with the likes of Min Woo Lee and Curtis Luck, during which he finishedrunner-up at The Players Amateur before winning the elite Porter Cup and being part of the victorious three-man Australian team at the Eisenhower Trophy, played partly at El Chamaleon, scene of the Mayokaba events on the PGA Tour. Sorry to be a jerk but this topic comes up quite regularly so there are dozens of threads in the archives discussing this same topic. I couldn't agree more, they are a thing of beauty but also of art, it'll change the effect the way the club goes through the turf, I've lost some distance using these because I was hitting the new T-MB which 3 iron went a mile, but the 3 iron in the MB's is what dreams are made of, way easy to hit and launch, I wouldn't want to mess with it, that being said I did increase the lie up 2 degrees for my swing:). Uneven lies can vary more than an inch, and based on club geometry that is 1.6* right there, and I can't say I had much effect on the playability of the club. 2023 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos, 2023 The Honda Classic - Discussion and Links to photos, 2023 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to photos, 2023 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Discussion and Links to Photos, 2023 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am - Discussion and Links to all photos, Fitness, maximum efficiency for the time spent. Its not about research or information, its about ego and emotion. The drop off in make percentage from 3-6 feet and 6-9 feet is huge. Ping G30 irons w/Recoil 95 Mr Divots, good point on the higher swing speeds, but like anything else we still see higher speed guys still launch the ball too low, it just is not as common as the low swing speed player. I was being fitted for MP-4's and the ball flight with the kbs tour x was a little higher than i wanted so my fitter was able to bend it strong incrementally by 1 degree to flatten out the ball flight for me. Titleist Response to USGA / R&A Distance Insights, Bending 716MB irons 1 or 2 degrees strong. From my observation of thousands of golfers of all skill levels, far too many are deficient in the fundamentals, starting with the grip, and then to the set-up and only then to the swing motion. I am a good long iron player and prefer them over fairway woods and especially hybrids. And provided the hosel of the wood is long enough to allow the bending bar to fit over its length, metal woods can be bent to custom-fit a player. But what about the mid and low irons, yes I understand some companies make 6/7 hybrids (7 and up is very rare), but you can not really replace an 8 iron with a true hybrid. 5 Testers Needed! After the death of his mother, Endycott understandably struggled through the late teens, understandably saying that, At the time, golf didnt really matter to me.. Bending 2* strong will increase the clubs digging tendencies. If the club has an abundance of bounce and/or a rounded leading edge, reducing bounce by 2* might not matter. May 23, 2016 at 04:54 PM. Don't think you'd notice a difference of 2. In my experience I have seen guys in the 8-14 handicap range with moderate ball speed try X Hot irons, and see much better results with the Rocketbladez. It just depends. Great answer Blake. Your previous content has been restored. Whether you can still hit the ball in the air and make good contact is dependent on your swing. The point is today, regardless of your skill level, if you work on making your grip and your set up closer to the proven fundamentals of the best players in the game, your path to better golf becomes infinitely easier. Copyright 2022 MyGolfSpy If anyone thought the Honda Classic had a below-par field, dont show them this weeks Puerto Rico Open. Ping Glide wedges w/Recoil 110 Approach play is the area of the game that leaves a lot to be desired amongst all levels of amateur golfers. Long story short, I'm about to have the 5,6,7,8 iron bent 2 degrees weaker, 9 iron 1 degree weaker, and AW 1 degree stronger. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Changing the lie angle of a club can help golfers more consistently hit shots off of the center of the clubface. I even fitted a customer with a new SLDR and put him in a 12 degree head with a TP shaft. Dont worry and overthink this like most doo. OP, which is it you are asking about.. making a club 2* stronger or increasing loft? Might actually help on hard ground. Calla SuperHot (Orange preferred) ||Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag. I was thinking of bending my irons 3 degrees stronger as my ball flights were too high, but then there would be a big gap to fill between the pitching wedge and the gap wedge, and potentially more side effects of bending the clubs then. for the better golfer, these lofts leave nothing at the bottom of the bag. Novak has made five cuts from seven starts since qualifying, with the most significant results being 17th in Bermuda (another wind-affected coastal course) 12th at the much higher-grade Sony Open and 29th at last weeks Honda Classic. KBS even notes it in the swing speed recommendations for their different model shafts, as their very lightweight steel shafts are about a full flex softer frequency than the standard weight counterpart. And here is why. We also see these players having gapping issues with a mid iron, not just 4 and 5 like your example, so adding loft achieves better gapping as well. The main reason it is done on GolfWRX is so people can brag how far they hit their irons, generally with a passive brag. It would decrease the bounce on each club, not a good idea, as well as it would cause the ball to go farther. Here are common ball flight issues if you are playing the wrong lie angle: Unfortunately, club manufacturing companies sometimes use different lie angles for their clubs. database of over 140,000 golfers and in excess of 250 million shots recorded using performance tracking products such as the unique. Brent Grant always brings the energy ?? It depends on several factors including as mentioned above how steep your swing is and if you are a "digger" or "picker". To do this I will need to bend the 6 iron - PW 1 degree stronger. A 1 degree lie angle change, either flat or more upright, can cause a 4-yard difference either left or right of a straight target. Watch this great video here if you are curious on how to bend the lie angle of a club using a loft/lie machine: Impact tape is a tape that a club fitter places on the face of the golf club that creates marks of where the golfer struck the ball on the clubface. I can't say that they have kicked my 716 ap2 out for good, but for now the 716 cb are staying in the bag! As club fitters, you have to find the balance between measurable results and what the customer THINKS is happening. Ok thats good to know, the longest iron I carry in the bag is a 6 iron so it wont make that much of a difference then in the long irons. Even with limitations, many of todays metal woods are indeed bendable, especially stainless-steel heads. Couldn't agree more with your entire post. What bounce does is keep the leading edge from digging into the ground. Epoxy Curing Times for Golf Clubs, Work Life and Shear Strength. The average golfer hits a 7-iron to around 30 yards from the pin. Still have questions? If this continues well end up with 25* 7 irons and carry 6 or 7 gap wedges. PING Anser 4 Hybrid The ball came out much higher and shorter, just like you would expect from a 63*. Display as a link instead, Fitters have to find some way to raise their ball flight, because those golfers lack the speed necessary to get the best results from many modern iron heads. Club design of a particular club can be a factor also. I did this several years ago and it ended up being quite expensive, so dont be me and order your custom set all at once! You cannot paste images directly. Loft and lie changes are more or less permanent. GolfWRX_Official Forged titanium models are bendable as well due to their softer titanium structure. Editors note: This article is in collaboration with Shot Scope. An Aussie with a residence in Scottsdale, playing on a windy coastal track this is a great chance. There are however a few key points that golfers need to know about changing the lie angle of their club so that they can get the most out of their club. The club was designed and built with certain characteristics. Now I learned to shape the flight high and low at any given moment. I was a little worried I might notice the offset or have trouble with hitting them fat, but they look perfect and play like they should. In the last six years, Tony Finau and Viktor Hovland both broke their maiden here, whilst after a period of personal tragedy, multiple winner, Branden Grace, bounced back to form. Feel free to browse around and see if anything catches your eye! Humans think theyre logical but when it comes down to it (when the wallet hits the counter), they are controlled by feelings, who they wish they could play like and what company has qualities that match their identity. Hope I did not complicate this any and maybe helped you, Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Speeder 565 R flex---- 3 wood TM V-Steel Aldila 65G R Flex 15*--- 7 Wood TM V-Steel UST Pro Force 65 R flex 21*---- 9 wood TM V-Steel stock MAS Stiff shaft 24*--- Irons 4 thru 9 Mac Muirfield TT black label --- PW Vokey SM-4 51* stock shaft--- SW Vokey SM 5 L grind 58* stock shaft--- Putter -- Rusty Scotty Santa Fe fluted Bulls Eye shaft---. The bend overlap in angle iron will be bigger so you need to allow for a 1/2 inch. Nick so, how much difference can CoG location make to the optimum loft? I should have made the same swing with a 9 iron, to compensate for the lie, but did not.". You can easily bend the lofts and lies to be progressively consistent from one club to the next with zero tolerance. The industry is run by marketing divisions, who are responsible for stronger lofted irons, in the mistaken belief that lower loft equals more distance. If you are a true sweeper that may be ok but you may not see that big distance gain you are hoping for. *Performance average removes all outliers good and bad, to give a distance based on how far a well struck shot will go. Hi! Think about how much this could help golfers from the rough as well. . 00bolt, May 18, 2017 in WRX Club Techs. It will reduce the bounce of the club, but the actual effect will depend on your swing path. 5 Testers Needed! Adams A12 19 - Fuji HB 80X, PXG 0311X 4 - HZRDUS Red 105 X Best of luck.Chuck. We have seen significant distance improvements with all 3 of these irons, it just needs to match up with how you launch the ball. Brilliant information ! Cleveland RTX4 50, 54, 58 I created this website after hearing the same questions from my students over and over as a place where new golfers can come to learn and improve their golf game. Upload or insert images from URL. The 27-year-old made his way onto the top level by virtue of his performance on the Korn Ferry Tour during the combined Covid seasons, and hes doing a great job in honing his craft. This is especially true of clubs made with long hosels. ***GIVEAWAY*** Cleveland CBX ZipCore Wedge! Great point I am a low ball hitter looking for more distance especially in my high irons. The lightweight speed designs dont seem to help the everyday golfer from the examples I see out on the course. If you change your AOA and go 2* steeper, both delivered loft and bounce is reduced by 2* It is a taylormade udi 2i that I want to bend from 18* to 16*. Why would you weaken the lofts of every club and increase the bounce angle by a proportionate amount if you could just get rid of the 3 iron and add a gap wedge? How will that affect it though? I would be using it off the ground as well, a little of both. The bounce angle will also change when making the clubs stronger or weaker. My irons are bent weak partly to get the right launch conditions but also to reduce my draw. Ordering & Information By 759 Decided to get lofts and lie's double checked on my irons for peace of mind and following a gap check session get them bent 2 degree strong to the original manufacturer loft spec. From my research into various golfer communities, it is highly likely that if you are reading this blog post you probably are playing to somewhere between a 5 and 16 handicap. Lower lofts will travel a bit farther and a bit lower, higher lofts will travel a bit less and fly a bit higher. question on bending a forged iron 2 degrees strong By ssfranny, January 22, 2019 in WRX Club Techs Reply to this topic Start new topic ssfranny Lefty Boomers 3.5k Feedback 20 0 0 Total Rating 100% Posted January 22, 2019 Have a set of basically new MP 53s I want to bend them 2 degrees strong to make them play more a modern loft. Check out our video: how-to bend your clubs on a Mitchell Golf Angle Machine:Get Bending! Driver: TM 300 Mini 11.5*, Tour Blue 85 X, 44" -or- Cobra Fly-Z+, Phenom NL 60 X, 44.5", 3w:King LTD, Aldila RIP Beta 90 X -or- TM Stage 2 Tour, NV105 X But loft is a much more important factor in fitting. Guess I dont get it. Another reason why stronger lofts dont always mean more distance is something I do frequently to help golfers hit the ball farther weaken lofts. Check out the different lie angles of a standard 8 iron from these three companies: I know that the difference between these angles doesnt seem like much. You hit the golf ball off of the heel of the club often causing the golf ball to hook or pull, You are playing clubs too short for you (again. LOWER COG IN NEW IRONS REQUIRES LESS LOFT A LOT OF THE TIME TO GET THE SAME DISTANCE OF OLDER CLUBS WITH A HIGHER COG. Offset degrees especially with a long iron can be a factor along with sole design. Since clubs are bent with iron bars by applying pressure on. Played a mp30 2i for most of the year as a gap from my 3i to my 3 wood. The difference after they were set to factory lofts and lie for my swing was amazing! We'll walk you through the process and offer some simple tips and trick. Contact Us 716 MB'S It sorts my gapping out perfectly as a result. In the five starts mentioned above, the St. Simons resident has some impressive first round finishes. The swing is dynamic and I seriously doubt that I can hit two balls on the course exactly the same, with my body being exactly in the same position every time. He hasnt let that chance go, and while the opening nine events certainly havent been stunning seven missed cuts he showed up at Bermuda, finishing 35th after entering Sunday inside the top-15. Even if you want to say a weakened 4 iron is longer in length than a 5 iron of the same loft and therefore goes farther, your gaps in your set will still be equally proportionate. We're not robotic enough to predict that exactly 3 or 4 degrees is the correct gap empirically. ** Due to coronavirus and the work restrictions in place here in Michigan, for international orders, please email info@mitchellgolf.com for a complete quote. I don't have any problems with the slight increase in offset and the lower bounce but if needed you could get someone to grind the leading edge a bit to put some bounce back. Manage your expectations, dont expect to hit every shot close, Make smarter club choices based off the above, Be sensible: The middle of the green is a GREAT place to be, The average golfer will get up and down from a bunker, 1 out of 5 times, The average golfer manages to get up and down around 1 in 3 times, Short game shots from the fairway have the highest success rate. See below the make percentage for an average golfer from varying distances. So if you have the time, watch this cool video that I really like explaining how important lie angle is for your golf game: Having and knowing the correct lie angle of your clubs will be a game changer, I promise! And you are right about the irons listed, X Hot is a shockingly low launching iron and the G25 would be the exact opposite, with Rocketbladez mixed in the middle. It flies lower and that is about it. How accurate are the loft and lie readings of clubs straight from the manufacturer? Endycotts weakness so far seems to be the driver, and with his stats suggesting he recovers well top-15 for approaches in recorded events this non-penal track should suit. ENTER NOW! (I ran into this today.) Ping Redwood Anser- the "real deal!". If you bend lie, you will effect swingweight. ***GIVEAWAY*** Cleveland CBX ZipCore Wedge! Reduce the loft & you reduce the bounce which, on the longer clubs, is quite small anyway. The 4 iron will have a negative bounce if you bend them 2 degrees. In a typical golf set, loft increases as shaft length decreases. Terms & Conditions Cast club heads made of industrial steel are all on the so-called "unbendable list". Yes, the T200 can be bent 2 degrees flat and beyond 2 degrees upright Titleist manufactures heads 2 degrees upright which can be bent up to a further 2 degrees i.e up to 4 degrees from standard Please sign in to comment TUser January 21, 2020 at 08:09 AM Along the same lines, I got my new T200 irons late last year. A standard golf shop, or fitting center will be able to do this. I am glad you mentioned shaft length, static lengths for GI clubs, how it impacts flight, etc. Ping G30 irons w/Recoil 95 I always found it a bit strange that I could be 20-40 yards ahead of some friends yet hit the same distance with mid to short irons. Golfers can see their spin rate drop thousands of RPMs from the rough (depending on the rough and type of lie), so being able to keep their shots in the air with enough spin to stop the ball on the green can be a huge part of helping them shoot lower scores. Novak has finished 11th after the first round in Hawaii, fifth at Torrey Pines and in the top-30 at Pebble Beach and at the Honda. Iron lofts can be bent up to 2 degrees stronger than standard (note: making the loft stronger will increase the offset and reduce the bounce . Yes, I'm a club gigolo. I find Callaway irons have to much bounce to begin with esp. Maybe manufacturers will take note (I doubt it, but keep trying. I was 50 yards out on the 3rd hole, and was in the moguls. Much of Harrison Endycotts claims were covered in the2023 Players To Followlist, but the summary is worth repeating to justify his selection this week. These are topics that have been kicked around and that are important in todays market, so articles will most likely be touching on them in the future. Sure, the top few are valid members of the PGA Tour, all with their legitimate claims in this lowly class, but we then have the likes of Chad Campbell (unranked after not being seen for almost three years) and Frank Lickliter (now outside the world top 3000) bringing up a rear lacks depth. JavaScript is disabled. Taylormade SIM UDI 2i / Diamana THUMP 100X, Taylormade P770 3i (bent weak) / Project X LS 6.5, Taylormade P7MC 5-7i, P7MB 8-9i / Project X LS 6.5. Not only does it mess with the bounce/offset, but it's only a number on the sole if the club. Brent Grantcould very well be one of the seasons fairy stories by September, having already secured his 2022/23 card with a stunning 50-foot birdie putt on the last hole of the Korn Ferry Tour Championship enough to finish 11th and sneak in. APPLY NOW: Cleveland Frontline Elite Putters! Driver- Tmag 2017 M2 tour issue 8.5* actual loft 7.8* w/ HZRDS Green PVD 70TX" However, in reality it was now a 63* wedge so what happened. In the grand scheme of things, I would say zero effect. GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, Tuesday at 04:47 PM, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 20, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 13, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 6, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, January 31, By Taylor Made tour issue M2 T3 Ozik Matrix 8M3 X Using like say an Older Macgregor blade butter knife with a thin sharp leading edge on the sole if you deloft more than 1 degree or so you have a chance of digging to China. Hi everyone, sorry for the slow reply! This is a list of all clubheads that clubmakers are not allowed to bend. Thankfully gone are the days of everyone demanding s300 S or X when they dont have the swing speed to support them. I've had plenty of clubs bent a degree or two and never had an issue with how the clubs performed, even a wedge. Seriously. After a quick gapping review we bent 2 clubs and tried those out which gave a good base to work from. AP2 irons are forged and can be bent with no problem, BUT I would recommend taking them to someone who does this for a living. Hope this Helps! For you lower swing speed players, go to blades with weaker lofts or better yet go to an old vintage blades with the pitching wedge 52 degrees, and you can hit the ball farther hehe. Started Thursday at 03:24 PM, Please put and questions or comments here, Please put any questions or comments here, Please put any questions of comments here. It, In any case one can't really compare clubs anymore with respect to asking what someone hit. I would never ever think of doing this on my own. You might find that you ask yourself if you are better or worse than the average golfer? Can you bend a metal wood? The bounce on irons is pretty much a non starter in my opinion. Where Can You Get Your Lie Angle Adjusted, Should You Use Heavier Shafts in Wedges? If you can get it in the air, no problem. TaylorMade M2 (2016) 9.5* (2* lower) HZRDUS T1100 75g 6.5 I did the math on these numbers years ago when I had an early release and wondering why I could not hit the irons very far. Good info to pass along regarding COG. TM Spider Mallet w/ Carbon insert Callaway 2018 MB irons Unless of course it's a long iron and you have a hard time elevating it in the first place. I showed him all the stats on the monitor and he was in agreement but when it came to buying the actual driver he insisted on buying the 9.5 head with the TP after all the work on the launch monitor. How noticeable will the difference in trajectory be and will distances change? NOW AVAILABLE: GolfWRX G/Fore Hats and Holderness & Bourne Polos! One good example comes to mind. A typical #6 iron on the Tour is 31* on loft but Dynamic loft is average only 20.2 Vokey 54.10, 2009 58.12 M, Testing TM MG2 60* TW grind and MG356* TW grind. Ping G425 Max 10.5 - Ventus Black 6X or G425 LST Ventus - Black 7X, Ping G425 Max 14.5 - Ventus Blue 7X Routinely, I notice longer than standard 85g shafts with these sets. A 4 iron only has 1 degree of bounce standard so will I have negative bounce when bent two degrees strong? Theyre selling the clubs by saying that you will hit them longer, yet like you said, many of those whod need the help arent really hitting at least the longer irons any longer. However, in reality it was now a 63* wedge so what happened. Todays golf ball travels farther than ever before and I dont see any need to jack up the short iron lofts. Yeah, you can bend them strong and not notice the difference in terms of look. Thanks! Loft is used to get the irons back to the proper launch window. ProV1x-mostly. Ping G400 Max driver w/Aldila Rogue 125 Silver I dont like alot of offset so that changes things a little. Will bending irons 2 degrees strong promote more of a draw ball flight? Now if you take some of the modern GI irons with the thick sole and rounded leading edge (Infiniti brand Assure comes to mind) you can de loft or strong loft it 3 or 4 degrees with no problem at all. Bending irons 2 degrees stronger gopher99 May 9, 2021 May 9, 2021 Thread starter #1 G gopher99 Active member Joined Mar 15, 2019 Messages 233 Hi, i need some info from the more knowledgeable people on here than myself, I would like to bend my mizuno 921 forged irons 2 degrees stronger to fit in with the gapping on my wedges. This could cause them to dig at impact, and no one wants that. Plus, those superlight steel shafts in the 85-90 gram range feel like a softer flex than what is listed, probably due to the thinner steel in the shaft. sorry, didnt mean increase loft. Add loft for distance?????? Any knowledge on the subject would be appreciated. You can post now and register later. May 20, 2016 at 10:43 AM Or if youre playing in firm conditions, you might want more spin and a higher launch. some strong lofts there, i thought you had blade type irons so, which have weaker lofts? I wouldn't feel comfortable messing with the bounce/offset/loft. There only seems to be one logical reason to do this and thats just in the odd situation where someone needs more bounce. So going 2 strong will remove 2 degrees of bounce. But what I dont understand is why you would need to weaken the loft of irons 2-3* when the gap between irons is 3-4*. The speed of putts is crucial. The golfwrx wannabe touring pros will argue otherwise.. After reading the headline I was expecting a slightly different subject discussed but this topic is something Ive been wondering about myself. salt and chilli chicken calories, mr amos sedgefield community college, if he doesn't reach out is he not interested,