Aint been nothing but problems since the military dropped the 1911, what was it 85 year of trusted service? Its not happening on your person without some catastrophic event. Trigger is lighter than the Glock, it took years of aggressive training to reach the point of acceptable discharges with the Glock. SIG is choosing to litigate their problems away. An x-ray (fluoroscope) of the mechanism in operation could show what, if anything, is happening inside the gun that might prove, or disprove, the contention that the gun is flawed. The drop-bang thing only happened at a very narrow event window, it was only once the Internet doom-preachers figured out that narrow window and did it over and over online did it appear to be a thing. Sig adapted and changed the pistol sufficiently to prevent even that issue. Theres just too much other paraphernalia bouncing around in there. Unless they have to fire their weapon in an on-duty incident most officers only fire their weapons just before and/or at qualifications, which depending on the department are annual or semi-annual. Second, pardon us if were more than a little skeptical that the P320 in question or any other handgun fired when it was out of battery. Have you ever put a handgun down with your palm in front of the muzzle? In my opinion, the only reason SIG would have done that is if they knew there was a safety problem with the original gun, otherwise they would not have done it., Scott says Harrison reviewed the claims in Officer Hiltons lawsuit and said, its unclear to (Harrison) what could now be causing misfires in the upgraded guns., Scott then asked Harrison if he believes the P320 should be removed from the marketplace. For the moron Neanderthals of the Far Right who will scream its the operators fault and we do not give a shit about marketing more safer designed weapons, if such idiotic polices were followed for other consumer goods today we would not have safety glass, anti-lock breaks, back up safeties, child proof medicine caps and chemical bottles, back up cameras, kick back muzzles on chain saws and the list goes on and on. As to prong 2, there is a considerable difference between the mechanism of a 320 and, say, ones basic Glock, in that a 320 is fully cocked, whereas a Glock is half-cocked until the trigger is fully depressed, with the striker remaining locked by the striker safety plunger until that is released by a cam on the trigger bar. The suit mirrors lawsuits filed across the country involving the semi-automatic gun known as the P320. Police officers do NOT get a lot of training unless theyre doing it on their own time at their own expense. Theyve gotten tons of contracts because the gun is cheap, cheap, cheap to make. So, unlike the Serpa holster debate, Im a believer that there is more going on than meets the eye with the P320 and is exactly why I refrained from buying one, why I still wont own one, and why I steer people away from it. The new Tauruses have a good rep, far better then the P320 or P365. Bagnell said he thinks the discharges are due to both design and manufacturing flaws on SIGs part. Excellent work. Watching all these Glock fan boys drool over these lawsuits in their tribal brand-lust is like watching the talking heads on CNN announcing Trump lost the 2020 election. The pistol is popular with commercial gun owners and law enforcement south of the border. Depending on who you talk to you will get many different answers. The military is much smarter and no, the gun is not junk. 1) The p320 doesnt hold the striker fully to the rear. P320 Voluntary Upgrade Program | SIG SAUER Whats this silly BS? and youve gotten this far reading our thread. LOL! Sig Sauer P320: The US Army Loves This Gun (But There Is a Problem) Too much MIM in that crap SIG, the old ones were great. Oct 20, 2022 #36 ; vh20 said: . He would have been booted after the first time, but being a cop comes with some special privileges. The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. Ironic that the trendsetters of yesteryear are trying to tear down the innovator of today because its Not perfected yet! and the Design isnt worked out!. The list is long proving gun manufactures were well aware of this problem now for 121 years yet they abandoned this when the Glock infested the gun market. Glock is being sued too, because once loaded and a round is chambered, it also has a much lighter trigger than a DA/SA. While it seems that I have a preference for battle ships, The Romulans had Warbirds. I guess none got her the attention she wanted and a national coverage so she went in for the bang. The second, longer version of the ABC story again included comments from Joshua Harrison, the consultant ABC hired to independently assess the P320. But SIG Sauer said it has rectified the issue with upgrades, including one made for the U.S. military which court documents, filed as part of one of the lawsuits, show resulted in substantial changes to the weapons internal design. to docile, too subtle, to contextual. They are being replaced with Glocks. About Those SIG P320 Lawsuits - The Truth About Guns Personally they should have gone with the Glock, its not for me but is a proven gun. The hype leading up to the P365 was pretty intense and the LGS sold a bunch of those. While we dont have the actual numbers of similar lawsuits filed against other gun makers actually no one individual or organization seems to keep track of these things and gun makers dont want to talk about it it seems highly likely that every major firearm manufacturer gets its share of a regular flow of lawsuits filed by both civilians and LEOs who claim SHAZAM! Which in and of itself is user error / misuse. The HK VP70 was made in 1970 when Gaston Glock was making curtain rods. After all, there are limits on complying with Rule 2 and even Rule 3, because a gun muzzle is ALWAYS covering something, somewhere, and ALWAYS knowing what lies beyondperhaps FAR beyonda possible target is an impossibility. People who know how to handle guns prudently and safely. Oh, if you another thread reader asking Wheres the Sig/Glock bashing? Sig Sauer P320 (Christine Peterson/TNS) February 22, 2021 Ryan Morgan Gunmaker Sig Sauer is facing a new lawsuit from a U.S. federal agent who claims his holstered P320 pistol discharged without him pulling the trigger and struck him in his upper right hip. Ever since the internet went mainstream I have read about the Sigs decline. They have hundreds of thousands of P320s in regular service now and, despite a search, we couldnt find a rash of reports of soldiers claiming their pistols are firing on their own. Is there any major military anywhere that ever issued one of their guns? But it also has much worse quality control on the parts in my experience owning and working on both. She claims that her holstered P320 pistol went off while she was carrying it in her purse. ABC ran their story on the P320 twice, but with some significant differences between the two reports. Did a Sig Sauer P320 Fire On Its Own? A Police Officer - 19FortyFive Hes like the arrogant star QB on your favorite football teamyeah, you would never want to spend a weekend with him at the lake cabin, but your franchise would be little to nothing without him. Fundamentally, the bits that the ambulance chaser claims are flawed function exactly the same way as a S&W M&P. You simply may not PREFER one make to another, or may simply dislike another make, but were to the point in semi-auto pistol production history where amongst the big brands, the only real distinctions are preference. Whats the difference between a $600 Sig and a $300 Taurus? But that's not working in the P320, he said. Either one could have been a gun or a Barbie. , 54 people all shooting themselves. Sig, take this firearm off the market, and recall. I dont care about the upgrade that should never happen. Mine is very accurate. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Someone is going to read this thread and be bewildered. On Thursday, M.D. The SIG will be the shortest military contract for guns in history. It seems safe to assume that while SIG is coming up fast on the outside, GLOCK is still most likely the reigning champ in terms of the firearms most often carried by law enforcement and other government agencies. He quickly too quickly tried to pick up the gun from the floor before anyone could see it, and in his haste, he picked it up with his finger on the trigger and accidentally fired the gun. These suits allege that their ultra-popular P320 pistol can fire without the trigger being pulled. P320 X Compact is it safe CCW | SIG Talk SIG just cannot seem to make a striker fired pistol that doesnt have issues. Maybe its a technical issue, maybe its a training issue. Then without any extra effort, the normal trigger pull caused the tab on the drop safety to sheer off. I would trust the intelligence of a Gorilla in a zoo before any one in the Far Right. So does any of this mean theres something wrong with the P320? 01:10. Detective Brittney Hilton sues Sig Sauer after she says holstered P320 Carrying a handgun in a purse, particularly one that isnt designed specifically to carry a firearm, is problematic at best. The fact is that the plaintiffs will get paid regardless of who did what. I didnt even touch it! Im a Kirk guy, a Shatner Kirk guy. Picard if Im limited to NCC-1701. His haste to avoid the embarrassment of his gun being seen on the floor turned the incident from a wardrobe malfunction (accidental exposure of a concealed weapon, probably just a reprimand from the OPR) into a negligent discharge (the gun being fired led to him personally getting fired!). It SHOULD have more engagement width wise, but often doesnt due to things being rounded or out of square. A lot like carrying a cocked and locked 1911 but with the safety off. DND/CAF is not in a position at this stage in its investigation to offer insight into the potential causes because our investigation scope is broader than the technical aspect pertaining to the unintended discharge of the pistol.. With Biden spending outrageous amounts of money, whats 100 million here or there? Charlton posted to the online commercial forum Canadian Gun Nutz, describing the CBC News piece as inaccurate and promising SIG Sauer would release a statement. I have no idea. The investigation revealed the use of an incorrect holster not designed for a [SIG] P320, said the statement, which was released Friday and posted to a U.S. online pro-industry publication, Soldier Systems. brakes, remember? Sig Sauer P220 Super Match. Thinking its okay to wrap a loaded gun in a towel and toss it into a gym bag is what we get when departments refuse to hire candidates who score too high on IQ tests. Everyone remembers the problems the Beretta M9 had, but it got sorted and they went on to serve over 30 years. Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. So even if, as the ambulance chaser claims, the striker leg could vibrate off of the sear face, it could not discharge unless the drop safety was also disengaged because the drop safety prevents movement of the striker sufficient to make the firing pin protrude from the breech face. This leads me to conclude that the problem is not the gear but the moron using it. Infact you have to pay shipping cost to get that fixed even though its their screw up. As far as ships go, Im drawn to the original movie vessels because they look the most, to me, like something youd really see humans build in space in 300 years. That could happen easily. It takes time for any new platform to work the kinks out. Once word of that got out there was an avalanche of sexual harassment lawsuits against Fox news. The American manufacturer of the new pistols belonging to Canadas special forces claims the soldier wounded in an accidental discharge last fall was using the wrong holster for the weapon. All those customers who paid $1600 now had a limited function paper weight. . It sounds the same as arguing whether Captain Marvel could beat Superman up in a fist fight its pretty absurd and laughable. Like many of our readers, weve been watching the slow drip, drip, drip of lawsuits accumulate over the past couple of years against SIG Sauer. OR some gorilla with more brawn than brains ignored the 40lb trigger pull they suddenly had to break the tab. It alleges that Walter Collette, Jr., a police officer with the Somerville (Mass.) While this incident occurred months ago, this erroneous media report is driven by multiple sources, including our competitors, and coincides with the imminent release of other Canadian military and law enforcement tenders, indicating the timing of its release is an attempt to improperly influence the procurements, the statement said. The use of a modified [SIG] P226 holster created an unsafe condition by allowing a foreign object to enter the holster, causing the unintended discharge.. The one officer in the ABC story had it wrapped in a rag in his gym bag? Pity that some of the most common reactions fall into two over simplistic categories: 1. My bet would be that someone had a fully loaded gun in a gym bag and a cloth or rag snagged the trigger. The Glock fails on both counts. Miraculously, no one was hit by the bullet, which ricocheted around inside the vehicle. Bagnell is representing a number of the police officers who have filed suits against SIG for un-commanded discharges, but wouldnt disclose the exact number. To give you an example of early self-propelled lawn mowers if you lost your grip on the handles the mower would not shut off and it would take off on its own right down the street all by itself. SIG says ABC had intended to include some of those other claims in their reports, but after SIG informed the network of the additional information that was uncovered, those cases werent included in either of the segments. P320 Accidental Discharge Still an Issue : r/SigSauer - reddit Third, Glock has had problems, too. The moral of all of this is the reason Sig got the military contract was because they were selling guns at close to cost, they underbid Glock by a significant margin. So I will just continue to carry Mexican style with my striker fired polymer wonder nine from a company that may or may not be SIG. But it hardly indicts the P320 as a badly engineered weapon or that its worse than another brand. There were a lot of changes. Sig started out rough, but a lot of agencies have decided that their modular chassis system is the way of the future. That a pistol will be carried in a way it shouldnt (say, in a gym bag or a purse). When Villani was asked for his opinion of SIG Sauer, he said, I carry SIGs, I own SIGs, I just dont own a 320nor would I ever. When Scott asked Villani what he found when he took a P320 apart, he said, I thought Wow, they need to do their homework, they need to fix this gun.. The weapon was out of battery when it fired.. And as far as Special Forces go, SF going to Glock has been documented as a bean counters solution to save money. Its a novelty, its got issues! Its hard to say yet but with anything follow the basic safety rules. Hes talking about trial lawyers recruiting clients whove experienced negligent discharges with P320s and suing the gun manufacturer. The claimed mode of failure was that the tab on the drop safety that interferes with the striker movement had been sheered off and stopped being a drop safety. Pasco Deputy Fired Over Accidental Gun Discharge Fighting To - WUFT The settlement requires the gunmaker to reimburse owners of . 3) If the sear fails, there is the drop safety in the way of the striker. Why are Milwaukee police Sig Sauer guns accidentally going off? I can say one thing for sure, the X on the side of the my is about is welcoming to me as grip zone was. The guys at the LGS saw only one broken striker but it confirmed what the manager who had the P320 go off and my thoughts. Alec Baldwin fatally shot a cinematographer and injured a director with a prop gun on the set of the film "Rust" and the distraught actor repeatedly asked afterwards why he . ABC News ran two reports on the topic last week, highlighting one particular cop in Bridge City, Texas who is suing SIG for $15 million. They admitted their problem and fixed it. The P320s and P365s were junk, plain and simple. SEPTA officer's handgun spontaneously fired in Philly's Suburban Station Does the P365 have a similar reputation for spontaneous - SIG Talk I could care but that came at the expense of reliability and safety. Again the Far Right Stupidity and hypocrisy is infinite. Bravo. Get a dead trigger when the striker breaks. And the idea some random comment section P320 hater thinks theyre smarter & more knowledgeable than the Army, Navy, Airforce, Coast Guard and Marine Corp combined regarding military pistol selection is just freaking laughable! About $300. Pistol misfire that injured soldier was an unpredictable accident - CBC With the redesign, you would have to implement a LOT of force to move the trigger backwards. To make the striker leg pull off of the sear, you would have to impart a lot of rearward momentum and stop it suddenly. Charlton, headquartered in Victoria, B.C., for comment on its original story, but neither responded. Bagnell also represented Virginia Sheriffs Deputy Marcie Vadnais who sued SIG when she said her P320 went off on its own when she was removing the weapon from her belt. Vadnais was featured in the Nightline version of ABCs report. Good job! Lastly, ship-wise I have to go with the TMP-era refit Enterprise, regardless of Captain. In the former case, you would need upward movement coming to a sudden stop to bump up the drop safety at the same time you imparted rearward momentum to the gun to try and move the striker. This is why we now have back up safeties on garden tractors and riding lawn mowers. You need a lead that can be the lightening rod and not be afraid to make an ass of themselvesit give the watcher permission to take it seriously. Canadian Special Forces Command has not said what caused the gun to go off unexpectedly, but the company said a conclusion has been reached. Frankly, I think that ship is the best looking sci-fi ship design ever, with the Excelsior a very close second. 2. So far I have only heard of one instance (post fix) where there was an ND and the post mortem on the gun demonstrating a mechanical failure. Wheee!!. Not just police in US had issues with sig p320. At least the Gorilla is still evolving while the Far Right proved to be an evolutionary dead end, one of natures mistakes. Harrison stated that, I have not seen enough to convince me that the upgraded version is dangerous., When ABCs David Scott asked Harrison if its a mystery whats going wrong with the updated version though Harrison had just stated the upgraded pistol isnt dangerous Harrison said, I do not have an explanation for why the updated version should have complaints from trained individuals. And the fact they used real models, and big ones, gives the ships a real sense of heft, mass, movement and solidity that the garbage CGI ships of the new movies just cannot remotely compete with. https://sofrep.com/news/dod-evaluation-says-armys-new-sig-sauer-p320-service-pistol-riddled-issues/. He wanted TTAG to convey that hes pro-Second Amendment. Ron Cohen ruined Kimber and now hes doing the same to SIG. Or you would have to have enough slide play for the slide movement to physically disengage the sear and striker leg mating surfaces. Sound familiar? Trust a P365 with your life. Remember the stupidity of the far right is infinite and the blind greed of the gun makers prove they could not care less about human life and suffering. So if, say, a person was to accidentally get shot through no fault of their own and need to sue, which specific cartridge/appendage combo would yield the most favorable least pain/permanent-damage : highest-payout ratio? Glocks biggest problem is they havent innovated since 1985. And those are exactly the kinds of plaintiffs who happen to make up the vast majority of the lawsuits filed against SIG. I am also very much a DS9 fan, best series overall. Its just that with hundreds of millions of firearms in the hands of more than one-third of the countrys population including a lot of cops some number of negligent discharges will inevitably happen. The incident with the P320 - a contender for a major Canadian Armed Forces procurement of thousands of pistols and holsters that has a Aug. 3 deadline for industry proposals - occurred at JTF-2's Dwyer Hill training range just west of Ottawa. Heres the version that ran Tuesday morning during the networks Good Morning America program . Yes, a lot of police officers only shoot when they have to for qual. I was tempted to buy one at one time but no more. I would rather play handball with the Devil himself because if you deal with the Devil he will tell you that you agreed to lose your soul for a big box full of millions in cash. NO, SIG has a problem that they would rather fight in court. This guy had been working at the LGS for over a decade and never had an AD or ND, he was the strictest when it came to safety. With the 320, the striker is in full-cock position, and held there through the operation of the trigger sear and the positive striker-blocking safety. A fine of up to $10,000. A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. Sigs are crap! 00:03. The Milwaukee Police Department reports "multiple unexplained accidental discharges" of the Sig Sauer P320 9mm, a gun all officers are required to carry, making for more than 1,600 firearms. Liberal, Conservative. That wont last for long, the P320 (M17 AND M18) are already failing in the field. Canadian soldier wounded by accidental discharge used wrong - CBC Sig Sauer's P320 is widely used by police departments across the country, and is a big seller in the civilian market, with about half a million sold nationwide. Its difficult to believe thats a coincidence. The second version emphasized the upgrade to fix the drop safety issue and notes that Harrison believes that problem has been fixed. Being prosecuted and convicted of a third degree felony in Texas can lead to: Incarceration in a Texas state prison for a term of two years or up to 10 years. That focus drifts. Hello perpetrators, Lee Paige is clearly the gift that keeps on giving though our buddy Hunter Biden is a close second! Whether or not the suits have merit. Inside the gun, a metal piece called the sear should keep the weapon from firing until the trigger is pulled. At least the Lion roars when he is hungry, the C.E.O smiles at you and when you turn your back he puts a knife right into it. Not sure why it wont let me reply to you, but Ill reply to myself in the hope youll get it. If it were the guns, there would be thousands of cases involving citizensbut there arent. Profits over reliability and you end up with junk. There are a few examples, I admitS&Ws M&P from around 2014 were near junk and I wouldnt have bothered to own one as a trotline weight, but apparently S&W had righted that ship since then. It has been flawless so far. Really? The modular SIG P320 is among the most widely-owned handguns on the planet. As a striker-fired pistol, the P320 is "under constant pressure to fire," Bagnell said. Its just dumb enough to sound like the plot to a damned Disney film. Well I jumped in bed with ma and pa , told them that the devil was in Arkansas. Not too long after they sold a pistol to the public and United States military thats not even DROP SAFE?!? Maybe in South America a poor military did, but thatd be about it. Either the gun is defective or its not. Yes, but that did not mean the machine would be able to go on being marketed like that. Especially since they farm it out to the lowest bidder. The current allegations, then, are different, claiming that the P320 is prone to un-commanded discharges.. This is this same company that couldnt build their own freaking rifles after multiple attempts (Sig SG550 series) when that rifle had been made in Switzerland for years without issue. I wont argue theyre wrong, I dont own one, dont want to. Unlawful Discharge of a Firearm: Texas Laws - The Law Office of Greg Look a fanboy. That show with no Shatner-Kirk and only a Nimoy-Spock wouldnt have gotten past the first season. Is it? So your fanboy perjorative falls not only flat but false. If the gangster greed monger criminal Capitalvanians in the gun industry had their products under the jurisdiction of the consumer safety administration all the newer striker fired guns would never have been allowed on the market unless they had manual safeties and a safe take down system. three changes to the original design. But the reality is that the military has been using the Sig P320 for almost 5 years and they show no signs of changing. One of the officers a few years ago was carrying his P320 in a P226 holster that he took a Dremel to make the P320 fit. They both underwent full testing but while the Sig was the cheaper handgun ($1.50), it also quoted higher costs for magazines and spare parts, boosting the overall cost of the acquisition. Now when you lose your grip on lawn mowers or snow blowers they will not keep travelling foreword all by themselves. Bineau added the review is looking at so-called ancillary equipment (meaning the holster and other items) as one element of that broader investigation. Its the expert who gets caught up in the routine and stops paying attention. He was told to shoot two rounds. Instead we see a Sig that is ran by Mr. Cohen of Kimber fame have repeated quality and product development failures.