By the way, the drainage to the northwest, where NPS had placed their line, is .2 mile and ~1,000 feet vertical (77% grade) of mostly weathered rock. There are zones that are simply are impenetrable by cellular rays and even satellite has issues. Thank all of you. In fact, Monday afternoon several rental agencies were telling reservation customers to come on to Gatlinburg (news documented). Some of the drainages where the managers hoped to stop the fire were a half mile away. Well said, the terrain here is different than a lot of places, even out west. I had concerns about traffic once we got down there. Those strong southerly winds had been forecast a good two days before the fire broke through into the developed areas. He promised a committee to study what happened and there has been no word since. But all sitting back and doing nothing to help. Many on that team are not NPS employees, but are highly experienced wildfire fighters. Neither the NPS nor the city wanted CNN cameras covering a mass evacuation of a town jam packed with tourists on Thanksgiving weekend. there is nothing that can address the failure of leadership at every level that contributed to that loss of life. Other than the way the police were able to evacuate 4,000 people from Gatlinburg with little notice on Monday evening, everyone else involved did a very poor job. After action reports with ample opportunity for community input led to better pre-fire management and intra-agency coordination of resources. We could see the smoke. The teens, 15 and 17, were charged with starting the Chimney Tops fire which eventually spread to the Smoky Mountains, into Sevier County and Gatlinburg, killing 14 people, injuring more than.
The devastation of the Gatlinburg wildfires offered hope, in a - Yahoo! You are aware that Bill Gabbert the Editor of Wildfire Today spent a large part of his fire carrier with the Park Service where I believe he was served on a nationwide Type I IMT. IMT issued pre-evacuation notices in GA and NC each time they saw cold-front winds approaching that could would threaten communities. I dont think so they were the people in charge not any of us and they didnt do their job. There are other potential hazards that make unplanned evacuations a danger in that area.
Gatlinburg fire 10/9/2022: One body found after Parkway blaze Their are undoubtedly many many causative factors for any disaster, even the actions, inactions and unintentional actions can be like a snowball rolling down a mountain of snow! They had identifiedon a map a 410-acre fire management area which, depending on weather conditions, may allow for further fire growth. A little later the local TV news reported the fire had crossed the road and was headed up the mountain behind the Park Vista. He told me he was scared to drive the truck-its a lot more cumbersome in the local terrain than his little Outback. At 10AM we drove to Sevierville to buy more materials (to eventually add to the bonfire). For the region, I hope fire officials do realize that regional history makes little difference if the right combination of factors exists for rapid and extreme fire growth. Ms.Schroer said she was not aware of any actual on-the-ground fire suppression efforts, other than perhaps some work on a distant indirect fireline, until Monday November 28, after the fire had grown large and crossed US Highway 141, the main road into the park. Now I am tasked with trying to motivate and coordinate the local fire departments much of who are volunteer, the state and national forest professionals to work with me and the community. The governors promised investigation has yet to appear (if it ever will), but the National Parks investigation is proceeding and no locals are on that team. I have to assume that the city of Gatlinburg felt that since my road was county property that I was on my own. He actually wrote me back on Christmas Eve, of all things, to tell me that they will keep after it. Our local congressional representative will be the first to confront the Park Service for numerous shortfalls, bias agendas that cater to special interest groups, and a host of other issues to where the NPS serves itself more so than the people. I certainly agree there are definitely consequences for our actions, for some more than others. The DA in Sevier County has put a gag rule in effect since the get go to protect the teeneagers involved. of them backing up and saying this isnt our problem we are carrying on just like always. You may have a point regarding lawsuits, reported actions and actual actions. With the drought conditions this would have acted as a flammable liquid would with explosive ignition and then been carried easily by the prevailing strong winds. Unfortunately, Im not optimistic about the inter-agency review. If you had transposed the same fire with similar conditions to California or Idaho would it have been managed the same way? The businesses include Cafe 420 . (Originally published at 11:04 a.m. MST November 23 . By the time the troops were called in, it was too late. I was in the area hiking November 21 and there was no smoke coming from the Chimneys area. (Credit: Tom Williams), Two people in custody after police chase, manhunt near Warrior & Hayden, Protest held in memory of Glenn Foster Junior, Fire department K-9 dies during search and rescue mission. Even this article seems to skirt around some of the issues and miss the depth of analysis it needs to effect meaningful change. All without the but why reflection, cause and effect analysis, drill down technique and the inter-relationship effect. Learning for the future is important if it includes changes in policy and procedure. Our neighbors 3 doors down were outside near their car. And not only they had time to evacuate but I called 911 Monday night on Nov. 28 2016 and ask if there was any evacuation orders for Gatlinburg and was told By The 911 operator no not at this time Later found out the whole place was on fire at the same time I called 911 ( WHY ) was I lied to ? Not because I am a teller of fortune. So property owners are left to deal with everything and if we had the power we would have done something like worrying the crap out of all of them until action was taken. Things are changing slowly, and the human factors are unfortunately changing at a much slower pace than the climate and other socio-economic factors. Amazingly, some locals have whined about Knox News and Wildfire Today pointing out facts and timelines while ignoring the fact that it was Congress that cut the National Forest and National Park budgets. They knew the high winds were coming days ahead of that Monday. It was considered a total loss after yesterdays fire. Kelly you are right, NO Help from City or County in the clean up..SOS home owners responsible for all.. The successes, and the losses, the poor decisions, the mistakes, the error and the failures. They will be touched in their heart as deeply as anyone who has lost in the tragedy itself. It seems to me that the extreme wind was as unprecedented as the drought and the low stream levels. They have tied their hands and resources through environmental forestry management. I am here at the opportunity on a couple of occasions to speak to the Fire Chief of Ontario Michigan. The fire was reported to be near the Twin Creeks Picnic Center at 1130. Damage was estimated at. We, the public, have to be activists for our own safety, the very safety that public officials claim to protect. Bob headed our way. I was on the phone w them that Mon. Thanks for the good fact based, solid coverage of the events leading up to the fire. The news person is very frustrated as she nor their rival Channel 8 can do no interviews due to the gag order. The fire season last year set new records in the state for the expansive area that burned, with more than 4.2m acres (1.7m hectares) scorched by more than 9,900 fires across California. In all the Disasters I have worked in Texas, FEMA reimburse City or County for debris pickup. Spirit Airlines . Great job on this website, it is very informative and I recommend it to everyone in the business. Im not saying GRSM made the right or wrong decision, there is just a lot more involved then saying they didnt suppress it promptly. Also, lots of hills in the area washed to bedrock by cloud burst and slides. I later learned that Sevier County pays for an emergency notification system called Code Red Alert. Im hoping at this point, its going to be pretty quick. These things dont come with the same cheap city plans out here in the rural mountainous zones! Officials keep repeating that nothing like this has ever happened here before so they cant be responsible. For folks afflicted by this tragedy, emotions running high should be expected; and it is understandable for Kelly Morgan to be upset. If the NPS backfires were not ignited on the 28th; then they had to be ignited on the 27th a day before the fire broke out.
Report: Gatlinburg fire caused $7 million in damages There were cliffs in the area but firefighting Hotshot Crews can figure out how to work on steep slopes, sometimes backing off a bit, constructing a fire line and intentionally burning the fuel in between, preventing further expansion of the fire. I particularly liked Sharon Jensens after action summary. it would not be the first time that political or other motivation caused biased reporting. Yes a lot is somewhat predictable, just as this fire, but not every aspect is, there are too many variables in the real world. From an all hazards POV large scale fire should have been recognized long before any drought conditions.
How many have died in the gatlinburg forest fire? - JacAnswers Oh thats right they did but it was after everything burned! We all contribute to this phenomenon if not intentionally but unintentionally, simply by the design of our brains! The blame is as simple as the nose on your face we have family that is firemen and friends that are and they too are trained in fighting fires and if they had contained it all of this wouldnt have happened. They decided instead to monitor and to identifyon a map areas for indirect containment lines which encompassed 410 acres. In this case, there were no firefighters in a position to take direct action. I always come back to that groupthink mentality, the ladder of inference, the been there done that mode, the failure/fear to act, and thats how weve always done it thinking; all part of how our unconscious brain works without our conscious intervention and critical thinking skills. Be sure to bring valid forms of identification showing name and address of residence or business inside Gatlinburg. The remains of 745 Main Street in Buffalo on Thursday, March 2, 2023., where a fire broke out on Wednesday . For example politicians far away from the event make decisions regarding funding, resources and operations. > Jeannine In my 40 years in the fire service (Calif and Alaska), I have seen an unfortunate number of cases where agencies in generaland the NPS in particulardesignate fires as monitored event(s) (insert favorite agency terminology here) that hours, or days, later explode into huge incidents. Our house was in a direct N/S line from the Chimneys. I began picking up news stories of the fire in Gatlinburg from as the storm rolled east. Like hell he did. If youve ever been in an incident management role you understand often having made a good decision given the best information available at the time you dont get the outcome you want. There was much deadwood on the forest floor, including the Hemlocks and other species both down and standing dead. .. bless you all! GRSM firefighters spotted the new fire as they returned from responding to a report of a vehicle fire. Sunday, four days after the fire started, was the first time that any firefighting aircraft were used on the fire, Ms. Schroer said. My question to the Deputy Super: If the Chimney Tops Fire 2 of Nov 23rd to 28th, 2016 could not have been extinguished before the winds came; and there was plenty of time to act before the winds came; then how come GSMNP fire crews apparently extinguished the first Chimney Tops Fire of Nov 12/13th, 2016? We spent Thanksgiving there with our family, who left on Sunday. I would rather have someone on the job who has screwed up, erred and learned from the experience as I know that the chances of a repeat performance are lessened and for most learners they will progress forward with even better decision making skills. But any land manager that expects to allow active spreading fire behavior for weeks or months is knowingly taking a risk that a wind event unpredictable weeks or months in advance will occur and change everything, sometimes with a very undesirable outcome. Now I can only imagine what children or adults with issues might have gleaned from this message being broadcast. Oddly, some folks that posted photos of the fire of the 23rd in its early stages have either pulled the blogs or the material cannot be accessed. Hit it with all you have the Moment it breaks out.. The GSMNP PR person announced at 2:02 pm that fires were expected to grow over the next 8 hours with wind gust of 85 mph. Ash move in quickly after a fire, and through the yearly process of shedding their leaves, make it difficult for seeds from the Red Spruce/Fraser Fir/Hemlocks to make an effective seed-soil contact, thus when we lose one of these magnificent evergreen forests, it truly is a tragedy in more ways than one. Jeannine, its obvious that you write from the heart, and you write so well it is indeed inspirational. FF get lulled into thinking they know by instinct but that era ininct will get people killed and thatas what happened. Download the WATE 6 News app or sign up for our email alerts for updates. Lots of fires getting controlled, crews pulling off and the new fuel falling and all back ablaze. The winds that Monday afternoon had knocked power lines down and early reporting made mention of separate ignition points in the residential hillsides. The Seiver County Medical Examiner's office identified the man as 54-year-old Joe Martin Bates, according to the City of Gatlinburg. The Tip Line is 888-653-0009. Because we were heading home to Ohio early Tuesday morning, we packed our suitcases and put them in the car. Where is his accountability? He asked them if they had any information on the fire and they told him Youve got nothing to worry about. By this time the wind was blowing hard and strong. Or in steep cliff terrain it just isnt going to happen, no one on the fire. Youve certainly added much food for thought. Those decisions had to be made with the best information available at the time not what we now know in post incident critique. Then the wind comes!!! Incident Mgt. I agree with you Bill that it isnt Most but whether it is a few or many isnt the point for me. I told him my home was on fire and he said they were evacuating everyone,then. Will there be an independent, non-federal agency, through,unbiased, unedited final incident management and serious accident investigation? The leaves that had hung on into late Fall because of lack of winds and rain for months began to rain from the trees in copious amounts and there were leaf funnels forming and it was hard as we ran from cabin to car loading Abram and Lady. Can we allow room for others to fail forward? He replied to me on Christmas Eve no less, that they were double checking all the facts to make sure all of their information was as accurate as possible and would keep digging. The immediate flash of ground clutter was followed by the much slower burning of the dead and down trees and stumps. People lost their lives and homes because no warnings!!! I am glad so many are taking a look at this situation, and hopefully never loosing sight of the intention to improvement and a better way. We were wearing bandanas wrapped around our faces at this point. Unfortunately, the good ole boy network, via the Sevier County DA, is trying to keep things in secret by cutting off all information after the the two teens were arrested, claiming such information could jeopordize the case against the teens. If they do work as a pair, do they set multiple fires in the same area? I told him we would come pick him up in his car. We need to hold, that experience though often shared, does not fit into every mold, because in the real world though some laws are universal, there is always changing variable and situations are never really exactly the same. You said in your post what I have been thinking. Experience in itself is never enough. You are among several Gatlinburg residents that posted local officials told them that everything was OK as late as 5:30 and there was no evacuation notice. The age of information is both eye opening and scary, the potential for manipulation is astounding! Prescribed burning is a critical ecosystem management tool across the nation, especially in the Southeast (https://goodfires.org/how) and when the term is used interchangeably with monitored wildfires it can lead to confusion. Some of the seemingly inexplicable burn patterns are due to the wind driven nature. I am just saying that it is not necessary to lynch someone in order to hold them accountable. As it was, there had been brush fires burning in N Georgia and Western NC since October. One only has to imagine a single downed power line starting a structure fire at the same time the wildfire was approaching to understand how the great loss of property and life actually happened. The Spur between Pigeon Forge to Gatlinburg is open from Pigeon Forge to the Gatlinburg Welcome Center. These breaks downs undoubtedly show shortcomings by officials. Chile is nearly a third world nation. This truck was also filled with firefighters. The news media started out just like the city news conference people leading people to believe the fire that burned everything occurred on November 28th, not true. When I crawled my way up Pinecrest Drive to Wiley Oakley through dense smoke, I saw a Gatlinburg pumper at the top of the hill. Superintendent Cash says the NPS has no jurisdiction to issue evacuations for the City of Gatlinburg. Fortunately, Wildfire Today and Knox News had both published detailed timelines about what happened and when, before the Sevier County DA cut off the info flow. This fire as did others around this time had highly predictable potential for massive and rapid spread. This article shows NPS was concerned by and notified of impending high winds. The massive Gatlinburg wildfires, which began in November, caused the deaths of 14 people, injured 175 others and destroyed homes and towns all around eastern Tennessee. Fires in the Great. I believe someone else may have mentioned this in other Wildfire Today article/comments? Two Hawaii police departments are making moves to beef up incentives as recruiting efforts grow more competitive. This is as far as this subject needs to go; for the objective of this site is in regard to wildfire. level, in advance of this disaster had occured. All rights reserved. I am like you in that I will never be able to get a good nights sleep on the mountain again as Im all be consistently looking out the window. Sunset that day was at 5:21 p.m. which would have allowed them to drop on the fire until 5:51 p.m., 30 minutes after sunset. We are excited to start new memories and get back on the trails. Lets say the NPS put a crew on it day one in steep inaccessible terrain as they say it was in. Digression from Comment Thread So who would you blame the people that died, wildlife and homeowners. Damage was estimated at more than $500 million, according to Sevier County Mayor Larry Waters. Hopefully all of those affected will be able to begin again. The helicopter worked until it had to refuel and then two other Type 1 helicopters took its placeuntil dark. Questions are powerful tools, but only when we allow them to be asked, we receive them with an openness and willingness to be vulnerable, and seek to answer them openly and without fear of reprisal. Its community and people that have jobs. For the most part, the issues are with the Upper Brass. I think wildland fire managers should be commended that this fire did not result in a tragic firefighter incident like Yarnell Hills. But. Many are willing to allow the absolute open permission to some to behave as they will without question, but are unwilling to allow others the same room to learn and grow. The deaths in this incident can be attributed to being trapped and forced to shelter in place. The facts are clear that this was not the appropriate action taking during the initial stages of the Chimney Top 2 wildfire. I viewed aerial photos of that area over the past 10 years (on USGS website). OF COURSE the dead hemlocks (and spruces and firs) are changing the picture for fire danger. GATLINBURG, Tenn. (WVLT) - Four downtown Gatlinburg businesses are picking up the pieces after a fire Sunday morning destroyed their building. We strive to use real facts, not alternative facts, on Wildfire Today. Remember GSMNP is not Yosemite or Yellowstone with extreme fire behavior and a history of problems. I would hope that we would fund the National Park Service much better so that cost-cutting is not so high on their priorities. Of course they wont. I saw Wyoming and Colorado engines being demobalized after containment. The GRSM person that requested the Spot wrote: Concerned about ridgetop winds with the coming front. I hope this video puts people at ease that this fire is. The decisions that worked made us heroes, and those that did not changed us if we were allowed that opportunity. On-the-ground fire suppression activity took place Monday when firefighters took defensive action to protect structures at a nearby GRSM picnic area. Was it ever fully suppressed? That is when it began moving rapidly toward Gatlinburg. We could smell smoke from the fires in NC for a month before the fire began on Chimney Tops.
Remembering the Gatlinburg Wildfires five years later - WYMT Officials identified Robert A. Hejny, 63, who was found at Traveler's Motel in Gatlinburg. Finding out about the fire has hurt me almost as much as it did the locals. Jeannines comments were spot on. But from what I have read the failure in this situation was in following procedure, so what can be added to have averted this fire and its terrible deadly consequences? if/when evacuation notice was given. Mother nature always bats last Sad chain of eventsonce again. I have wanted to learn because I dont know enough to say much, but when I read your two posts about the loss of your cabin, and your escape, I felt I had to say, Im so sorry, to you, and probably speak for many many others who did not find this blog and find an avenue to learn, listen and to speak. Much needed rainfall is expected on Monday with additional rainfall possible through Wednesday. Did the fire have to be so devastating? Kind of like closing the barn door after the cow gets out, dont you think? The learning system of resolution. We really need to stop being so quick to cut of the heads of people doing their jobs and instead insist that they learn from and make changes for the better. All three incidents have a common denominator. I will not be looking for Gatlinburg or Sevier county first response personnel as those people will be grounded by a spineless group of county, city and NPS managers Who can only be described as cowardly indecisive. Compare the events to their fire management manual and contradictions are present. The whole thing is unconscionable to me. Park Service has not issued any warnings and there are no active fires in Gatlinburg city limits. I ask her if they had plans of issuing a warning if evacuations became necessary and ask her how they would do that.