lwrc smg 45 problems lwrc smg 45 problems

No buffer tube silliness to try and work around, so the folded brace or stock actually drops the footprint to something vehicle or backpack worthy. Look at the no-name guy who got a million hits for his new Python failing video. First few times taking apart and putting back together were painful but OK now that I know the tricks. Um nope. Got the zero pretty much on but it was still scattered all over the target. This gun comes with 4 x 25 round magazines. The tension should be just enough for the barrel to flex in-and-out (forward and backward) but just barely. .Personally, if I was going to buy something specifically because I saw it in a game it would be like the BFG from Doom, Gravity Gun from Half-Life or something crazy from Borderlands or the Destiny franchise., Im still waiting for a phased plasma rifle in a 40 watt range. Active rebates (10) Winchester Target Rifle Ammo Rebate 2023. 3k for a new gun that might shoot like sh!t is a real bummer for sure. Figured a few others struggling with this problem might be interested in that update. This baby eats everything and is now my full time travel companion (sorry mpx-k) totally worth the wait an the price. Ive had no failures shooting white box and federal hst. LWRC SMG-45 Pistol. Cant say enough good things about it. There have been multiple people claim the same issue. LWRC SMG 45 Problems Prudii Jul 28, 2020 5 3,392 Prudii PMMEYOURCZPICS Supporting Member Multi-Factor Enabled Joined Jun 11, 2017 Messages 1,442 Location Triad Rating - 100% 35 0 0 Jul 28, 2020 #1 TL;DW Significant accuracy issues across multiple guns with random flyers 10+ MOA away from point of aim. Mine has ran flawlessly for approximately 1500rds now, No accuracy issue for me, but the bolt shattered around 1,000 rounds. Thumb is talking about. "Need" is a slope of slipperiness in dubious exercising. Mags are $60 from LWRC but UMP mags appear to be available elsewhere for around $45. A .45 Subgun pistol I could SBR down the road. I have really wanted a .45 PCC for a while & I think the LWRC is the modern day Thompson. Upload or insert images from URL. Thanks! Absolutely love this sub-gun and couldn't be happier with the fit, finish, accuracy or reliability. No reliability or accuracy issues with factory or my reloads. LWRCSMG-45. The issues poping up are a bit worrisome but I'm sure LWRC will get it straightened out. $3k for a short-recoil PCC? Dont tell me about the top sold of anything. They may have fixed the accuracy issue with the new models. The Rossi 92: A Firearm That Delivers Both Quality and Value, Sig Sauer 716 Tread 762 Nato 16" Barrel 308 AR-10 R716I-16B-TRD, CZ SCORPION Evo Pistol 9mm OD Green 91355, Smith & Wesson M&P Shield 2.0 9mm NTS No Thumb Safety 11808, MPA Pistol 9mm 6" Threaded Barrel Black Masterpiece Arms 30T, Radical Firearms RF00154 FP10.5-300HBAR-10RPR AR Pistol .300 AAC 10.5" 20-RD, Unique Ultralight-15 223 Wylde 16" Barrel AR15 HEXRIFLE. I think that tiny micro (Think MP5K / Vector) PCCs have a place in home defense and personal protection. SMG .45 FEATURES: Fully Ambidextrous lower controls: AR Selector, bolt catch, grip and hammer/trigger allows easy operation for right or left handed shooters Innovative Paddle Style Mag release. Thread starter Dschapp44; Start date Oct 24, 2019; Forums. And the former is accomplished by other PCCs half the price. If it werent for the $3k price tag Id seriously consider it. Got mine the other day SN 21##. We don't have a bias towards one brand or another but after handling and shooting both guns the B&T was our preference. Extremely smooth shooting 45 ACP. Barrel Price $2693.00 In Stock ICA5R5B16 LWRC International LWRC IC-SPR 5.56mm 16 Spiral Fluted Barrel Price $2434.00 In Stock 1 Review Not to go too far off topic but Perhaps HK UMP, since they set the Mk. If Biden's plan goes through, I'll probably SBR it. Still, video games get people into guns. With a relatively inexpensive 300 BLK upper, you get the same utility as the SMG at a fraction of the cost. I hope that LWRC gets the kinks ironed out expeditiously. Im sure Im not alone. I like wired operating systems. Pasted as rich text. Next time I go to the range, I'm taking the front portion of the suppressor off to see if the weight subtraction will increase the reliability. I have an interesting range report for you. $30.00. The invoice lists the following changes: Also got mine back this week . also got the coupon. I was really looking forward to buying one soon but now I'm going to have to hold off. I'm extremely excited to hopefully put some rounds through one eventually. They aren't the first to start trying to find a culprit part, tolerance, CNC machine, forge error, mold error, etc. Update so shortly after I got my SMG-45, I started seeing flyers and accuracy issues (like in the Garand Thumb YouTube review). My wife almost beat the fuck out of some skater idiot for pointing an EVO at her last time we were at a gun shop. Dumped the LWRCi. Sponsored Radical Firearms Socom RPR 556 Nato AR-15 Rifle. Today we're reviewing the updated version of the LWRC SMG 45! Everything from MP5 clones, to Kriss Wunderwaffen, to the bog standard Scorpion. If your the person who want suppressors on everything, then 45 ACP and 300 AAC are your favorite choices. LWRC. Login for Special Pricing. $ 2,499.00 For sale is a LWRC SMG-45 semi-automatic pistol in .45 ACP. I was pretty interested in this gun ever since they announced it. Description. I much prefer the HK style 4 position safety, but I can see the utility of a gun you can flip from safe directly to burst without the risk of accidentally setting it to semi or dumping a magazine. After firing almost 1000 rounds, all the mags loosened up. Been badgering my local dealer to find me one when no one could find them. Help Support the site and gain access to the Feed, see fewer ads, and get a new icon under your name showing you're a supporter! Its really reliable, easy to use, andthere are no contracts.Big Daddy Unlimited Linkhttps://lddy.no/5cbnThe Big D Bag (2nd Biggest Support of the Channel) - https://bit.ly/GT_Quarterly_BDBCode: GARAND gets you a $200+ D2 Knife with quarterly subscriptionhttps://survivaldispatch.com/ACRE GOLDhttp://lddy.no/ggyvLEVIATHAN GROUPhttps://www.leviathanprime.com (Code GT10 at checkout) Sonoran Desert Institute https://www.sdi.eduUSCCA - Sign Uphttp://usccapartners.com/GarandThumbhttps://www.patreon.com/GarandTHumbhttp://beyondclothing.com/garandthumbCrye Combat Shirt G3https://amzn.to/2BdELnuleupold delta point prohttps://amzn.to/304EXTWPeltor Comtac headsetshttps://amzn.to/2NrrqkuHaley Slinghttps://amzn.to/2LHAX4jArisaka PEQ-15 MOUNThttps://amzn.to/2IRjGm1Surefire Scouthttps://amzn.to/2S4eDmvOakley M frameshttps://amzn.to/2nZM6UeVertx 25% off DISCOUNT Code: GarandThumbhttp://vertx.com/LAX Ammo Discount Code: GarandThumb https://www.laxammo.com/SICK T SHIRTShttps://teespring.com/stores/garand-thumbSick combat belts with input from me!https://ciguera.com?aff=garandthumbLAX Ammo Discount Code: GarandThumb https://www.laxammo.com/Support Garand Thumb!https://www.patreon.com/GarandTHumbVertx 25% off DISCOUNT Code: GarandThumbhttp://vertx.com/Camera Equipment--Panasonic Gh3http://amzn.to/2tDZZ9h50mm lenshttp://amzn.to/2tXEUcwZoom h1 Michttp://amzn.to/2tDWek9lapel michttp://amzn.to/2sUSgqe--Like and Subscribe for more awesome Garand: http://www.youtube.com/subscription_center?add_user=britishtangInstahoe: https://www.instagram.com/garand_thumb/GarandThumb on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/garandthumb1 Until .45 PCCs are more reasonable in price ill pass. The CMMG Guard and Banshee also use a true delayed blowback. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. So I can understand that. We will contact you as soon as this product is available. My buddy bought one. The latter cant be accomplished due to the current state of our civil liberties but really it full auto fire rate is still a little too high. Groups in close are tight (2-inches at 25 yards on a bench rest) good, at least for me and my crappy eyesight. I think this is a magazine issue, not a gun issue. Pistol forearm brace Magpul singlepoint sling Holosun HE510C-GR . No range time to proof any of this yet. Sorry, but what makes this better and more expensive than a B&T APC 45? The gun is completely ambidextrous out of the box to include the easily reversible charging handle, safety selector, and the paddle mag release similar to ones found on AK platforms. They fixed the accuracy issue. Should I buy one and hope for the best . Fellow owners- any updates recently on accuracy or feeding? There is still a market for it there and they can distinguish themselves a bit. And at 1/3 the price, I'm happy. The LWRC SMG-45 Crown is a Submachine Gun. I've got 3 LWRCI rifles and they've been rock-solid tack-drivers, with almost no quality issues except for one SMG magazine that needed tuning. Pricey, but so much fun to shoot. Keep those in mind, and follow the online videos, and eventually you'll muscle through reassembly. The Picatinny rail sitting along the 12 O'clock position allows you to mount your favorite optic easily and maintain zero with a strong lock-up. All the groups were consistent and tight and I have NO stove pipe feed malfunctions with ANY of the magazines. You are using an out of date browser. The barrel and bolt travel rearwards together for a short distance before unlocking This is called a recoil operation, Jeremy. Love the .45 round, the size and weight of the rig. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. by 3dcart Online Store Creator. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. I've only taken it out once. It seem there is a flaw that causes horrible accuracy issues . Yea gets worse if you add a can. Follow Our Other Media Pages: @rshgungroup Show more LWRC SMG 45 Overview 4.7K views 1 year ago 9mm vs 45 ACP, WE END THE. Helping that threaded muzzle be more effective when suppressed and greatly cutting down on felt recoil as compared to a straight blowback system is a unique delayed blowback mechanism. All Rights Reserved. Fantastic trigger. Optic is a Vortex UH1 Holographic sight love it. Minuteman. Been excited about this weapon since seeing early reports back in 2016. I have an opportunity to pick up one of these for a smoking deal (around $2500 in trade). The highly anticipated SMG model is built on an AR platform with innovations and high performance features you expect from an LWRCI. I saw the same video this afternoon as well. But when you can have those 25 rounds hanging off the gun just forward the trigger then youve drastically changed a factor in caliber choice. You can tell if you have the upgraded magazines by looking on the back of the magazine at the very bottom it will say V1, This is 25 yards in Benchrest conditions using Remington 230 gr. Basically, think modern .30 Carbine sort of concept with more effective terminal ballistics - 1700-2000 fps but in a compact SMG/PCC that can reach out to a legit 150+ yd w/out much if any holdover and still be a very controllable weapon. Well, probably not near you, but it is just a click away here at GUNPRIME. It features an adjustable length of pull and, based on the two screws seen in the top tube, possibly a facility for future cheek rests. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Colt found that strategy to be unproductive. ATF Proposed Rule 2021-R08 has been signed by the Attorney General and published in the Federal Register although we only have a vague date of "August 2022" for finalization. NEW in box Never Fired LWRC SMG-45. Not going to happen. Lets not forget that the SMG is modular and as more calibers come out, you can swap. Trick #4: To fully insert bolt assembly, push the little round spring-loaded thingie at the back of the bolt (this little gem caused me about an hour of extra work to figure out how to get the bolt assembly fully inserted into the upper.) But it doesnt mean those are particularly good beers just because theyre sold in massive quantities. I wouldnt drop that amount of money on one. Mine is a late #2xx serial number with around 500 rounds to date. The fact that its not a simple blowback design is nice, the design seems pretty robust, and I like the fact that it shoots an inherently sub-sonic round. Better Security for the Home. I first shot it with the 15rd mag and suppressed with a AAC Tirant 45M. SMG (.45 ACP) Parts. A 45 and Ill gun like that has always appealed to me. Evidently MY SMG doesn't like the extra weight of the suppressor on the front end. The long-awaited LWRC SMG-45 arrived this month in a Gun Shop near you. LWRC SMG UMP 45 Auto Magazine 25 Round. A lot do, and as you probably know 45 ACP is well suited for suppression. Compare prices for 850016966742 - LWRC SMG-45 45ACP BLK PISTOL SMGP45B8S from all vendors. Unfortunately for LWRC, the MP5, MPX, and CMMG banshee all do it a lot cheaper. The only thing I didnt really like on the full auto one I got to play with were the separate safety and fire rate controls. All the bullets went in the same tight group. I am on the hunt also, I might buy a APC45 PRO while I am waiting. . I know its not gonna be some precision shooter but I also dont want to have absolutely terrible groups at 20 yards, Im waiting for mine to be sent back from LWRC was having feeding issues with the v1 mags with or without my sil co osprey With booster even disassembled the can and cleaned and oiled the booster with the same results never got a chance to check accuracy since the first test was so disappointing that I immediately sent it back they claimed they will test with an osprey I hope they test accuracy as well since they now know its a problem SN 15xx. Final verdict: Because of its construction, the SilencerCo Omega 45K is a great suppressor for either PCCs or handguns. In full auto, the best I could do was 4-5 round bursts. It is very shootable (word?) My HK parts mags didn't have the V1 stamp. $10.40. Meet the first model in the SMG Family - the new LWRCI SMG .45 Pistol . Played with it a bit and realized the follower was "catching" and "chattering" instead of moving up smoothly. Other than that its a well made rifle. The B&T APC45 is less expensive and we feel better made. [SHOT 2020] LWRC SMG-45 Magazine freqchance SMG-45 reliability problems. I really wanted these to work. This System is just perfection LWRCI really went all out on the design and functionality. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. Secondly, it does NOT stop the rounds rattling in the magazine though its not quite as bad as before. Awesome! My SMG-45 and REPR MKII (6.5-CM) are the LAST two I'd vote off the island. It includes panels to aid in gripping a hot firearm following continuous strings of fire and a handstop to prevent the user from shooting their hands similar to other backpack guns like the new Daniel Defense DDM4 Personal Defense Weapon (PDW). I hope it will decrease the shot groups from spreading so bad. I bought one when they first came out (before doing my research). If you want something expensive that works get a B&T or H&K something instead. You should have no problem finding one." Come join the discussion about other firearms, gun ownership, gun care, tactical firearms, small arms, optics, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! The accuracy and the butt stock being set down slightly are the only things he disliked from the whole package . Had not noticed a problem at all. Answer (1 of 15): The AR market is so flush right now that that the cheapest AR style rifle is actually an AR-15. At the very least hide the cash away for the unknown. So Why would anyone buy this instead of a b&t apc45? Your link has been automatically embedded. I found a like new used Kriss for $1200. LWRC looks like they took what works: AR controls, AR parts (presumably), H&K magazines, and put on a side-charging handle and M-LOK abound. MAP. Can't disagree more with the guy that said "If you know AR's, you'll know this". Theres about 100 other options for guns that can realistically be used in the unlikely event of a home invasion while youre home. Advanced Trigger Guard Polymer. LWRC SMG 45 25 Round Magazine $72.75 (Save up to 6%) Price $68.39 L04-0061C01 LWRC International LWRC DI CA Compliant Rifle Price $1807.00 In Stock ICDIR5B16CAC LWRC International LWRC IC-A5 556 NATO 16.1 In. I could go on and on with examples like thatcars, A/V equipment, etc. It has been punished and torture tested in the harshest environment's, to guarantee that it will not fail when you need it most. Trick #1: Remove the thread cap Meet the first model in the SMG Family - the new LWRCI SMG .45 Pistol. It's a tack driver, takes Glock mags, and cost 1/3 of what the LWRC cost. Time will tell need to get to the range with it more. LWRC SMG 45 for sale. One new winner* is announced every week! Should I just move on? Wife really enjoyed shooting which she is does not like shooting my .45 handguns for size and stability. Looking through the Manuel it does seem you can reassemble the gun incorrectly that could cause accuracy issues . $23.75. MAGPUL LWRC 6.8mm 30rd PMAG - Black. Clear editor. Or should LWRC send me a new one? 9mm Luger guy here so it's a pass for me. Designed on our proprietary Short Recoil/Delayed Blowback operating system the new SMG is lightweight - 5.9 lbs and . Powered by Invision Community. Improved ammunition capacity. I can't wait to see how the 9mm version shoots! A $3K toy that most people couldnt afford to keep fueled. Only reason for 4-stars is the lack of good takedown/reassembly instructions in the manual, and/or the lack of a good online video instruction guide on the LWRCI web site. The only thing Vectors do well is take glock mags and, theoretically, better at full auto. Or it will group ok and them have 7-9 flyers . Sounds stupid, but IME, its something that attracts a certain kind of idiot and, if you get one, guess who you end up attracting? Hits hard and consistent. After tuning the mags haven't had a jam or failure to feed in months. Add To Cart. Training especially Medical. ..Realistically, its no different from all the tools who grew up reading too much Soldier of Fortune in the 70s and 80s., strych9 says: Estimated Value *Condition, Features, Barrel Length, Specific Model, & Seasonality may all impact value and resale price. Takes range time from my 1911's and other handguns with similar portability and much better accuracy at distance. The first batch of the much anticipated LWRCI SMG .45 has shipped earlier this week. Select Options. Runs great with octane 45 [deleted] 20 days ago Add to cart Add to wishlist. Trick #3: On reassembly barrel 1/4 turn ccw - collar angle section (a) visible (down), and (b) toward front Just placed a deposit down on one as they looked awesome. This has never been shot. Thus, its just an interesting photo on the interwebs. I got to handle one at my LGS. It may not display this or other websites correctly. After watching garand thumbs video Im on the fence . I have put 700+ rnds through it. I don't feel like such a moron when I clean it. This is a great shooting little gun.. Classifieds 258 Location:Montgomery, Alabama Posted December 9, 2021 Mostly the lower grip . I have the chance to get one in the next 6 days or so but I am very very very on the fence. What a failure and waste of serious talent. All 4 feed perfectly in this gun. Aug . 3-5 rds shot and stove pipe. Your email Data collection LWRC now needs data. Discover Is the First Gun Store Transaction Tracking Credit Card. ago The first shot ever sheared the hook on the hammer. FS/FT NEW - RADICAL FIREARMS RF-15 RIFLES AVAILABLE IN 5.56, 300 BLACKOUT, AND 7.62X39 FS Tag Heuer Formula 1 Chronograph (New Updates! Well made but pricey. You can shoot a PCC much faster and more accurately than a pistol. Hi, I bought this weapon about 2 months ago. I want one of these but not until they are squared away. Meet the first model in the SMG Family, the SMG-45. They are very hard to find however & most you do find are MSRP $2999 or much more on Gunbroker, ect. I really wish it wasnt 3k . Meet the first model in the SMG Family - the new LWRCI SMG .45 Pistol. (The two round burst function is a technological marvel.) Without a doubt the LWRC SMG 45 is the perfect weapon of choice for military, police and all shooters alike. Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more. It has been operating flawlessly right out of the gate and seems to eat anything from regular target rounds to my duty carry +P rounds consistently without any issues. Report a problem. Id pick this over my UMP45, just because of the trigger. Its the reason why HK early on, only developed 45 ACP suppressed with the Mark 23 SOCOM for Navy Seals and later USP for civilians. You have entered an incorrect email address! Over to the pistol and we see an SB Tactical pistol stabilizing brace. Street price is probably $2400-$2500 and will fall over the next couple of years to sub-$2000. Probably. For more information, please see our What am I doing wrong? The PCC in 45 is an awesome option for any kind of endeavour you choose. So, got a surprise shipping email from LWRC this past wednesday. meaning It easy to carry to any indoor range without any ammo limitations, shoots smooth for quick/lunchtime shoots, easy clean/maint. It arrived back in my grubby hands today. The item you are trying to purchase is currently out of stock.Please enter your name, email, and phone number below. Natural and Human Disasters. Your friend will receive an email from you with a link to our site. I own lots of firearms Im way past necessity so looks are very important as bad as that sounds I still want it to work imagine that . If I had the opportunity and extra cash Id already own one. Are they still making these? Listening closely to shooters, operators and consumers, the . I had an interesting experience with my SMG-45 acquired early SN: 000118. $2,995.00. Constructed using high performance aluminum and steel materials with premium hard coat anodized nitride nickel boron surface treatments throughout, the SMG .45 is built to last. I read his review. After the eternal wait to finally get my fingers on it this is one amazing toy! Ive read all the reviews and videos. - with improvements , suppressor & optics ready, lightweight & compact with the SB brace. Cookie Notice Article code SMGPB45B8S. For $3k I can pick up a Vector in both .45 ACP AND 10mm. Weight: 10.7 oz. I spoke with a rep from LWRC probably around June or July and he said the initial feeding problems was a magazine issue and that they have fixed the accuracy/flyer issue. LWRCI SMG .45- PISTOL CALIBER PERFECTION. It shot a shotgun pattern group at close distances. Fit, finish, and design are fantastic (though for the consumer market I could have gone for M-LOK slots rather than LWRCs own attachment system). I like it more each time I take it out. Its not really my cup of tea but I doubt the price will be that high forever. They can be had new retail for as little as $500, which is the cheapest I've ever known them to be in the last 20 years. Or have they paused it to work on the fix? 578-28 RH RIFLING: 1:16 RH | 6 Grooves Features: LWRCI SHORT RECOIL DELAYED BLOWBACK SYSTEM LWRCI HIGH PERFORMANCE ALUMINUM AND STEEL CONSTRUCTION LWRCI RAIL PANELS I just took mine out today for the third time .multiple shooters .multiple types of ammo .bench rest conditions 10.15 and 25 yards and Im getting 7 inch groups at 25 yards has anyone else had the same problem with this gun? I had been trying to get one for several months and finally just called LWRCI best idea I ever had because they were so great. Im extremely excited to hopefully put some rounds through one eventually. No, its not a popular handgun cartridge, because when you have to hold a double stack 45 handgun it always feels like a behemoth. I was hoping the delayed blow back would be less gassy but it is not. There have been multiple people claim the same issue. Most people are cheap and stupidthats why that sell the sh/t out of Budweiser, Bud Light, and Michelob Ultra. Every shot is super-fun. The main reason, I gather, APC45 is still a blowback. The Hide Armory. I sure hope they get it figured out and soon. They are awesome. Having fired the Vector (in .45) and the MP5K both with the giggle switch installed, Im partial to the Vector. Available with lower capacity magazines to meet state or local compliance. I started trying to zero it at 25m with the suppressor but couldn't get all the hits on the 1/2 size silhouette so I moved the target to 20m. Good Luck OP. All Rights Reserved. The highly anticipated SMG model is built on an AR platform with innovations and high performance features you expect from an LWRCI. A++++ LWRCI. At least with a muffler all you get is old guys who tell you its illegal but since they think its illegal they dont want to play with it. Naturally, the muzzle is threaded. When I talked to them at SHOT Show, they were like, "Oh yeah, we're cranking them out as fast as we can. If you have a question about an item, please call or e-mail for more information before placing your order. $65.95. We kept one as a demo for a few weeks and put several hundred rounds through it. 0.450.45ACP. Thats kinda ridiculous. Money better spent on More AMMO. Is it classified as a pistol? . The blowback design really reduces recoil. Please enter your username or email address. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. Just read some reviews on the B&T and none were flattering. If so, I would love one. "mag 45" soo it shoots .45 Auto Mag? Try finding B&T APC 45 (blow back) mags for less than $90. Brand Winchester Expiration date 2023-Apr-30. Copyright var date = new Date(); document.write(date.getFullYear()); lwrci.com. ). Mainly just another fun expensive range toy. Add to cart Add to wishlist. and our Its a delayed blowback system that will suppress well if the gun works as advertised. $218.40. Muzzle is threaded. Display as a link instead, let me add though regardless of your dominant hand everyone that I have let get familiar with it has really been blown away by how intuitive running it has been. $19.99 for firearms: details: Primary Arms. This SMG has been shown at least since NRA 2016 in Louisville, theyve had plenty of opportunity to change to 9MM and go to M-LOK, especially considering its stratospheric (for a pistol caliber PDW) $3000 price tag. .45ACP in nearly all but the very lightest bullet weights is subsonic, relatively low pressure, and has that cavernous barrel inside diameter to further dissipate gas volume. It looks nice indeed. If you don't have an optic yet, then no worries it ships with robust Magpul MBUS PRO backup iron sights that won't fail you when it counts. $120.64. pscipio03 Fun O' Meter on FULL Joined Mar 11, 2013 This in vogue offering from LWRC can be easily understood considering the recent uptick in pistol caliber carbines (PCC), but what makes this product different than other offerings? Check it out. Grouped like shit, mine is damn consistent in its groupings.